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KI 201C, KI 208, KI 209,
& KI 214 Indicator Repair
I
repair, calibrate, and test each KX170B or indicator to factory new
specifications. Numerous tests are performed in accordance with King Radio's Quality
Acceptance Procedures before issuing a yellow-tag. This is NOT just
a quick "bench check" to verify that repairs were effective. This is
a complete check of all major performance specifications. Your KX170B or indicator
will be electrically new -- like a "zero-time" engine.
I specialize in doing electronic repairs and calibration on KX170B nav/coms, and KI201C, KI208, KI209, and KI214 indicators ONLY.
Contact J.A. Air Center in West Chicago for MAC 1700 service. (www.jaair.com) (800-323-5966)
I DO NOT sell radios or indicators.
I DO NOT sell parts.
I DO NOT provide help with aircraft radio installation troubleshooting
Nobody can tell you if a radio or indicator is repairable until it is first fully tested in a laboratory with sophisticated test equipment.
The indicators pictured just above are the ones commonly used with KX170B radios. Top left is a KI208, a newer design. The KI208 is much more reliable than the previous KI201C which is on the lower left. The KI209 is on the upper right, it too is a newer, more reliable design. It is essentially a KI208 VOR/LOC converter/indicator which also has a glideslope indicator needle included. A separate glideslope receiver is needed to drive its horizontal needle. The KI214 is on the bottom right, it is a self contained unit with a built-in glideslope receiver, but it is an older design. Each channel in the KI214 is individually tunable and it must be re-calibrated about once every three to five years.
Each indicator has a different connector on the back. In order to change from one indicator type to another you must have an avionics shop connect new wires from the back of the KX170B radio to a connector suitable for the indicator to be used. (Or they can, in some instances (i.e. going from a KI201C to a KI208), make a short adapter cable with the proper connectors used on each end.) I have only a few connectors, but avionics shops can get what you need.
If you can tune a VOR station and hear the IDENT tone your radio is probably ok -- the problem is most likely in the indicator -- so send me the indicator, NOT the radio.
Please read "A Word About Indicators" below before sending an indicator in for repair.
How to pack your KX170B or indicator
------ U.S.A. sales ONLY ------
----- Aircraft owners ONLY -----
---- No aviation business sales ----
--- No FBO's, clubs or 3rd party sales ---
-- No sales southeast of Ventura (No LA Area) --
ORDER FORM instructions
(highlight the entire order form, copy it, paste it to a word processor, fill it out, print it, sign it and send it with your radio.)
PLEASE DON'T SEND ME AN OLD JUNKY KX170B OR INDICATOR THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW THE HISTORY OF OR ONE THAT HAS INTERMITTENT PROBLEMS. Your radio or indicator must have come from your airplane in which the KX170B or indicator has been installed and has been fully functional until its very recent failure!
I charge $150 for testing and evaluating "unknown-origin","multi-problem", "junk" KX170B's or indicators that can't be repaired for a reasonable cost.
Nobody can tell you if a radio or indicator is repairable until it is first fully tested in a laboratory with sophisticated test equipment.
ORDER FORM
(updated 12/13/07)
DATE:
YOUR NAME:
VISA/MasterCard BILLING ADDRESS (I must ship to your billing address):
VISA/MasterCard CARD NUMBER: __ __ __ __ ...__ __ __ __ ...__ __ __ __ ...__ __ __ __
EXPIRATION DATE: __ __...__ __
LAST THREE DIGITS OF NUMBER ON BACK: __ __ __
DO NOT OMIT ANY CREDIT CARD INFORMATION !
(Please verify that you have sufficient funds in your charge card account.) [ ] Yes I do.
(Please verify that this radio or indicator does not have intermittent problems.) [ ] No, it does not.
BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF PROBLEM:
YOUR AIRCRAFT TAIL NUMBER (in which the KX170B or indicator has been installed and has been fully functional until its very recent failure):
TELEPHONE NUMBER ----- [I MUST be able to contact YOU personally at this number during the day or early evening to make critical decisions while your radio is undergoing "surgery" in the "operating room", answering machines, secretaries, etc. don't get it ! PLEASE be available or I will make a decision for you and you may not like it:]
I AUTHORIZE THE EXPENDITURE OF:
CARDHOLDER If you can afford a week delay please circle ----> "NO RUSH" (This really helps to smooth my backlog)
Shipping via UPS or FedEx: Gary Glassmeyer
Gary Glassmeyer * UPS is the best delivery service for shipping TO me -- FedEx is OK, but they can delay delivery by a couple of days (to my remote location). Recently UPS shipping stations have been telling a few customers that my address is not valid, but I have been receiving shipments from UPS for over 20 years at this address -- go figure! Tell them to ship to my address regardless of what their computer is telling them!
* United States Postal Service (USPS) is the only delivery service that is available to me for my outgoing shipments. You will receive shipments from me via "Priority Mail". Everyone seems to be happy with this method of shipment.
I am retired -- out of the rat race -- and trying to enjoy my "golden years" living a sane lifestyle. Don't ask me "how is your schedule?" -- I don't have one!
Please don't ask me to RUSH anything --- I simply won't do it.
TYPICAL TURN-AROUND TIME IS 2-3 WORKING DAYS (98%), however, I try to go flying anytime Wednesday through Sunday, so I might not be in the office then. Since I am fully retired, I go on vacation trips with my wife several times a year. I will post a "CLOSED" notice at the top of the web site if I am gone for a long period of time.
I repair KX170B radios because I think that they are the best aircraft radio ever made and I enjoy helping fellow pilots to keep them going.
Please understand that I am not running a typical business and I am not interested in conducting business the way others do.
Repaired KX170Bs are warranteed for 30 days.
Your KX170B must meet these criteria for a flat-rate repair:
If your KX170B or indicator has a serious problem** (rare) and is not repairable,
it will be returned to you with just a $150 testing and evaluation charge. You
must pay for return shipping, or I will dispose of the KX170B if you prefer to save shipping costs.
** One serious problem is that of the COM kilohertz frequency selector dial jamming when the knob is turned. This is the end of the road for the KX170B. Your best option here would be to slide out the bad KX170B and slide in a good one.
** If your radio blows its circuit breaker chances are it is seriously defective and not economical to repair.
** Another serious problem occurs when a KX170B or indicator is shipped without the recommended 4" minimum of bubble wrap or RUBBER FOAM packing material being used on the front and back of the radio or indicator. If the front panel gets bent during shipping the labor cost increases by $150 for straightening the front panel and the drive gears behind it.
** If both the COM transmitter and COM receiver are inoperative there is about a 10% chance that there is an unrepairable problem with the COM SMO. This is the end of the road for the KX170B. Repalcing the KX170B with another would be the thing to do in this case. However, in most instances (90%) having both a COM transmitter and receiver failure can be fixed under a flat-rate $300 repair.
** SERIOUS PROBLEMS SHOW UP MOSTLY IN THESE KINDS OF KX170B'S:
PLEASE DON'T SEND ME AN OLD JUNKY KX170B OR INDICATOR THAT YOU DO NOT KNOW THE HISTORY OF OR ONE THAT HAS INTERMITTENT PROBLEMS. Your radio or indicator must have come from your airplane in which the KX170B or indicator has been installed and has been fully functional until its very recent failure!
I charge $150 for testing and evaluating "unknown-origin","multi-problem", "junk" KX170B's or indicators that can't be repaired for a reasonable cost.
Nobody can tell you if a radio or indicator is repairable until it is first fully tested in a laboratory with sophisticated test equipment.
** Most other problems can be repaired for the flat-rate of $300.
Answers to Common Questions
Nobody can tell you if a radio or indicator is repairable until it is first fully tested in a laboratory with sophisticated test equipment.
Only rarely is there anything broken in a radio that would produce a "weakness". They usually either work well, or not at all. A radio must be broken in order to fix it --- there are thousands of components in a radio that might produce "weakness" and a partially defective component would be nearly impossible to find,so if this "weakness" truely is in the radio, it would be too expensive to repair. Replacing the radio with a good one is the best option and temporarily replacing the radio with another one might help in solving the problem.
Don't forget the audio panel as a critical part of the overall system, as well as your microphone and headset or speaker and all of their connections.
=== Would you give us any credit for our broken KX-170B ? --- No, I have 20 - 30 broken KX170B's now. I don't need any
more. Find out what is wrong with your broken KX170B, it might be
repairable. Try to find out what the avionics shop
determined was the problem (when they told you it was not repairable and you should buy a new radio instead of repairing your KX170B).
=== Is your operation there an FAA certified repair station? --- No, FAA
certified repair stations must be located on a public airport and
competition is not encouraged by the FAA so most repair stations are
separated by large distances and are located near heavily populated areas. I used to own the first licensed FAA repair station at the San Luis Obispo, California airport - certificate number
418-1, so I have done the drill and know what is required by the FAA. I support their standards and practice them fully. It is my belief that my credentials and quality standards far exceed that of many
avionics shops. I am fully retired in a remote rural region and provide support to the KX170B radio
because it is such a fine radio and it is gratifying to me to help so many
owners keep these KX170B's and their indicators going. Many of my customers are avionics shops that no longer have the expertise to service these "older" radios. It is your responsibility to meet any requirements to keep your airplane "legal".
=== You mention different color tags but I am not familiar with the exact meaning of each color. Could you please give me a brief explanation of the meaning of green and yellow tags? --- YELLOW - Serviceable (functionally like new). GREEN - Repairable (it's broken, but might be able to be fixed). RED - Reject
(beyond economical repair, junk, scrap, might have useable parts).
=== My KI214 receives some glideslope frequencies, but not others, and some are very weak. Can you fix this kind of a problem? --- Yes, a repair is needed. The VOR, LOC, and glideslope functions will all be tested. Indicators should be tested about every three to five years.
=== My COM transmitter is "weak" can you tune it up? --- The KX170B series of radios either work or they don't, they are rarely low on output power, and even if they were, it would not make much difference since signal strength is a logarithmic function. There are also no adjustments to raise or lower the power of the transmitter. Your antenna or transmission cable may be defective, but most often insufficient altitude is the problem. Aircraft VHF radios are essentially line-of-sight. If you can't see the lights (at night) of the station you are trying to reach, chances are communications won't be good.
=== How can I tell if my COM transmitter and receiver are working on ALL frequencies? --- Borrow a handheld transceiver if you don't have one and get someone else to operate it from several hundred feet away. All frequencies do not need to literally be checked, just 118.xxx - 135.xxx and then xxx.000 - xxx.975 MHz. In other words, check all whole MHz frequencies with the fractional KHz selector set at any position; then check all fractional KHz positions at any whole MHz position. Be sure to avoid 121.5, local tower, ground, clearance delivery, ATIS, etc. frequencies. Keep your transmissions short such as "test", "roger", "test", "roger", and so on as you switch through a pre-arranged written list of test frequencies that you are each working from.
=== My KX170B works in my friends plane but not in mine -- what could be wrong? --- Most likely it is the microphone or headset connection. The connectors must be bright and shiny clean. Many are made of brass which tarnishes over time. Clean these connectors all over using a fine emory cloth. The jack (receptacal) must also be cleaned. Next likely is broken wires either in the headset or possibly between the jack and the radio. Finally the problem could be in the antenna / feedline system. At some point you may need the help of an avionics shop.
=== How reliable are VOR / LOC and glideslope indicators? --- Indicators have a high degree of reliablility, but when shooting an approach you cannot tolerate ANY errors. Check VOR #1 against VOR #2 before takeoff, also check each indicator on a Localizer frequency. The LOC needle should be centered when checked with a ramp test set. When shooting a precision approach using a glideslope indicator, cross-check your altitude frequently to make sure that you are not too low. If the glideslope system should fail it can take up to 20 seconds before an indicator warning flag pops up. Shooting an approach with a single radio system is inviting disaster and should not be done. Indicators need to be calibrated about every three to five years.
=== Do you have a MAC 1700 or MX 170B for sale? --- I no longer stock MAC 1700's mostly because of the very limited demand for them and partly because they are not compatable with some indicators. Contact J.A. Air Center in Chicago for MAC 1700 service. The MAC 1700 is 95% a KX 170B so it has most of the reliability of a KX 170B -- an MX 170B is an altogether different radio designed to plug-in to a KX 170B mounting rack, but it does not have the long track record of reliability of the KX 170B. I specialize in KX 170B's and do not have any MX170B's for sale.
1. Are all the KX-170/170B/175/175B series radios totally "slide in compatible" with each other and their trays? ---- Yes.
2. If so, might this "slide in compatibility" depend on what model indicators or external GS receivers may also be in the loop? --- Each indicator wired to the back of the radio must be compatible with the radio and have a connector that mates to that particular indicator. Commonly used with the KX17xx series radios are KI 201/B/C, 208, 209, and 214. The KI 209 requires an external GS receiver. MAC 1700's use solid state rather than mechanical switching and are not compatible with some indicators. Contact J.A. Air Center in Chicago for MAC 1700 service.
3. Splitters? Is there anything I can do to minimize the signal strength losses caused by a NAV1/NAV2/GS splitter short of installing additional antennas and cabling? --- NO - laws of physics rule here!
4. My KI-214 has always "seemed a bit weak". Even when working good it still seemed to "hook up" and get a good signal only after the number 2 radio's Ki-208 was giving good indications. Is this necessarily the "stuff" caused by splitters or is this another problem? --- Every radio receiving system (which includes the antenna, the splitter and the cable going to the antenna) will have its own "sensitivity" to signal reception with noticeable variations. Antenna placement, antenna cable condition, altitude, mountains and distance from the station are all very important factors in determining signal strength too.
5. If an indicator, such as a 214, checks out good on the bench and is calibrated and aligned with optimum bench generated signals, what happens when the indicator goes into an aircraft that uses an antenna splitter for two navs and a glideslope. Can this less than optimum installation be compensated for during alignment in the shop? --- The splitter in this case will divide the signal strength going to the GS receiver by about 1/3. This might be compensated by adding a pre-amplifier, but that would be adding to the complexity and the reliability of this critical system.
The KI 214 has an extremely sensitive receiver which should give you a solid indication when intercepting the ILS (even with a splitter), but the receiver has about 45 to 50 "touchy" adjustments that need to be made every 3 to 5 years in order to insure that the indicator will work well. This is the most likely cause of reception problems.
6. Can you give me a likely prognosis or an educated guess as to what the 214 might need? Repair? Single Failure/Flat Rate? Or perhaps anything else I can do to better diagnose the 214's problem? --- The KI 214 needs to be tested in the laboratory with the proper test instruments to determine its problems. It is most likely a single major problem.
A Word About Indicators
VOR/LOC and Glideslope indicators are connected to the end of a long chain of components which comprise a navigation system. If the indicator is behaving strangely, a common reaction is to believe that something is wrong with the indicator when, in fact, the indicator is OK.
You MUST verify that all of the components preceding the indicator are performing to established specifications, using the proper test equipment, before the indicator can be considered suspect. Here are SOME of the major links in this critical chain that must be checked:
In addition to these items, the airplane must be airborne at an altitude sufficiently high to "see" directly to the received station. The battery must be in good condition, receiving a charge from the alternator, and 13.75 volts (or 27.5 volts) must be getting to all sections of the navigation equipment.
Before you condemn an indicator you must MEASURE its inputs with the proper test equipment to verify that they are of the proper and sufficient level.
Swapping your indicator with a known good one and comparing the two is a good way to determine its condition.
Intermittent Problems
No one can repair any electronic equipment unless it is broken and it STAYS broken. If you have a radio or indicator that works sometimes but not others, IT CANNOT BE ECONOMICALLY REPAIRED.
It will only waste your time packing and shipping and my time unpacking, testing, doing paper work, re-packing and shipping if you send me something that is not solidly broken. I charge $150 for testing and evaluation + $30 return shipping if you send me an intermittent failure item.
Please don't send me something that is intermittent or which does not have a clearly defined problem hoping that there is some magic way to fix it. There just isn't. Waiting for an intermittent problem to show itself just ties up the laboratory equipment and my time. If it takes 15 minutes before it starts working or before it fails, I don't want to be bothered with it! The best thing to do is to replace the KX170B with another (good) KX170B.
Having said that, there are a couple of intermittent problems that are repairable. They are ones that come and go when you wiggle frequency selector knobs, power on-off switches or volume control knobs. If you use a handheld nav/com as a signal source you can see if you have this kind of a problem while keying the handheld radio and wiggling the controls of your KX 170B.
KX 170B & KX175B Radios and indicators
Any item to be "flat-Rate" repaired must have only a single-failure. Each additional problem adds $150 to the total.
Be
Careful When Buying Used or Exchange Radios
Do the math -- you will most likely pay $750 to $1000 to
eventually get the radio fully functional!
Look out for
radios or indicators ads that say "removed for upgrade", "working when removed",
"working fine", "selling as-is". --- What does that mean ??
A complete faceplate refurbishment is a long process which is
much more difficult than it seems at first thought. It is NOT a
simple peel-and-stick process as the sellers of those faceplate overlays
would have you believe. The front panel paint
has to be removed and redone, old overlays have to be removed,
frequency windows must be cut out and reset. Damage to the radio
is possible if you are not very careful.
I no longer provide this service.
Outright Purchase
items (ONLY for "repair" customers with items too expensive to repair):
Gary Glassmeyer: Retired engineer Division Manager - electronics manufacturing &
maintenance - Computer Sciences Corp. (CSC) Private Pilot, Instrument, Multi-engine rated, 4000 hours. BSIT
/ MAed. - California Polytechnic State University
Aircraft owned: Piper Colt, BD-4 (I built), Wren 460 Super STOL, Moni motorglider, Cessna 182, Cessna 150/150HP (Lycoming O-320), Cessna 337 Skymaster.
FCC Commercial Radio License
Testimonials:
Sam Foote, Paridise Valley, AZ -- I just wanted to take a second to say thank you for all your help and advice with my older King radios and indicators.
It only took about 45 minutes to put it back in yesterday. We checked it out on the Luke Aux ILS 109.7 and it worked PERFECTLY! The VOR indicator was within 1/2 Degree of my
6 month old KX 155 with it's older KI 208 indicator which I am sure is no surprise to you.
I think in the long run, it will turn out to be the best $350 I ever spent on aircraft maintenance!
email received -- Fantastic web site. I love saving pilots money so they can put gas in their planes and fly. Will pass your info on to many customers I see everyday looking for help with 170's. Mark Baas, A&P, I.A., FCC, Presently working at Hillview CRS, Muskegon , MI
Brian Sprowl, Thorofare,
NJ -- Again, thanks so very much, radio is working great!
Sean Cooper, Dallas, TX -- I received my KX 175B yesterday and installed it last night. Everything works great!! Thanks for the fast and the good service. I know several people with the same radio and I will pass your name on to them. Thanks again.
Fred Schumacher, Friday Harbor, WA -- Hi Gary - Got the
radio last week and installed. Works great. I've done everything
with it. Thanks for a job well done.
Jon Kannegaard, Sunnyvale, CA -- Exceptional. Above and
beyond the call of service. Fast. Helpful.
Robert Wagonner, Barstow, CA -- radio tested great -
this guy knows what he's doing .. HIGHLY Recommended, EXCELENT
turnaround, sending next radio.
Dr. Daniel willard -- Great Transaction Thank You....
Have a wonderful day.
John Seeler, Bristol, NH -- Gary, I have taken a couple of flights with the indicators (KI-214 & KI201-C) that you repaired, and they work great. I just wanted to say thank you.
Bob Mc Eneany, Las Vegas, NV -- Extremely fast delivery,
Excellent communication, Fine condition, Thank you Gary
Mark Nicolayev, Spreckels, CA -- This was a fun deal.
Everything went as planned.... Thanks.
Craig, email received -- I really appreciate your continued involvement with the aviation community. As I'm sure you are well aware, your expertise is widely known and very much appreciated!!!
Gaylord Wynters, Corona, CA --- Thank you for the information and the quick service. I appreciate your
honesty and will spread the word about your services to my pilot friends.
Van Ellis, Ardmore OK --- Gary, Received the KI 214 in good order Mon the 3rd,
installed it Tues the 4th, and tested it this morning.
It now receives the GS signal at Ardmore Ok where I
need it for my checkride. All segments (GS Loc and
VOR) that I was able to fly this morning worked fine.
Thank you for your prompt, courteous and capable
service.
Pay by VISA or MasterCard.
If you still have questions (about my repairing of your radio or indicator) that remain after carefully reading, and re-reading this website DO NOT call on the telephone
Click here to send an email, BUT --->
Please don't email without first CAREFULLY reading this website.
If you have carefully read ALL of the website above but you are old fashioned (as I am) and feel that you must talk to a real person call me at (831) 385-0301 between 10 a.m. and 3 p.m. PACIFIC TIME. The answers to 99.9% of questions are answered above, but I understand many people need human contact, so call me and I will be glad to talk to you
. I don't do avionics consulting on other than the few items that I specialize in and cannot advise you on other equipment types or on the unique installation in your aircraft.
Nobody can tell you if a radio or indicator is repairable until it is first fully tested in a laboratory with sophisticated test equipment.
Please don't "give" my email address or telephone number to other persons who don't read the website first.
Everything you need to know is somewhere above !!
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